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Season 2017


    End of Season Review

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    Wolvershank
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    End of Season Review

    Post by Wolvershank on Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:09 pm

    With the regular season coming to a close, I just wanted to make some proposals for things we need to/could consider for next season before XRL leave everyone's consciousness.

    - Scoring and Stat Provider

    This is the key one. With a new season we aren't beholden to the scoring system we designed to be used with nrlstats. I quite like nrl.com, but perhaps scoring thresholds could be changed for the better, and there are difficulties with this system in terms of penalties not being counted live in the player stats, and 1on1s not being available live, and having to be added to our scores manually. If you've got submissions/thoughts on using a different data service or how the scoring should work i'd be keen to hear it. Needing to create a new scoring template isn't an issue, as long as the week to week scoring can be done reasonably autonomously. NRL.com is probably the preference at this stage, with everyone having the better part of a season getting familiar with their stats. There are also new stats that we could implement. For example Nrl.com has drop outs forced. That said, no new stats are available in match stats, only in the end of round players stats.

    - Draft Day Changes

    I would like to see us move from making changes through polls run on this forum. I was thinking that we could potentially put aside 30 mins  to an hour before the draft to resolve any changes we are having season to season. This would not be able to include anything that would impact on draft strategy, as it would be too late for people to adjust. It would mean that the draft can start an hour later, but people can still arrive at the regular time and drink on the tab for this meeting. People arriving at the start time sometimes proves problematic, so this may suit some late risers, as being present for the meeting would not be mandatory.

    - Draft Draft

    There is no Auckland 9s comp next year, so we will need to come up with something new for determining the draft order. The date can be flexible, and doesn't need to be as extravagant as a weekend away somewhere. Maybe just a preseason version of the Grand Final Party. I'm open to ideas on how that could be run next year.

    - Draft Order

    I was thinking in order to make the draft a bit fairer we could reduce the amount of cards drawn by half. Rather than getting the ace meaning you are the 1st pick in round 1 and last pick in round 2, then drawing a new card for rounds 3 and 4, the ace would mean you are the first pick in the first and 4th rounds, and last pick in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. 4 draws like this would get us through round 16, then 17 and waivers would again be linked with the round 1 and 2 draw as it is now. If there isn't a glaringly obvious problem with this that I have overlooked, I think this would be a good change.

    - Playing Less Than 13 Players

    I would like to see a change to punish teams who play less than a full team. Maybe something like -1 for every player under 13 you have. This would promote more active roster management as stashing injured players now potentially has a harsh cost. It also gives value to nufty players as they may save you losing points just by virtue of getting some minutes on the weekend. This will hurt everyone significantly over bye rounds, and would reward those planning ahead. At capacity each team has 7 players in reserve, so in a full NRL round I don't think there is much reason for anyone to struggle to field a full team if that is part of their week to week planning. Interested to gauge interest in a change like this. Also as to what a reasonable punishment for blanks in the team should be. Maybe you think it could be harsher than -1 per non starter.


    That's all I have for now, but if you've got something you'd like discussed then bring it up. That said, if it was brought up and shot down last year, give it another season before bringing it up again.


    Last edited by Wolvershank on Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    freddyfittler

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    Re: End of Season Review

    Post by freddyfittler on Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:33 pm

    - Scoring and Stat Provider

    Would like to see a move away from manual entry of stats - ie: abolish 1 on 1 tackles and adjust tackle threshold. The manual entry introduces a potential error and creates a delay in getting final scores out.

    - Draft Day Changes

    I think we should have decided on changes well in advance of draft day and very much doubt that consensus could be reached in a reasonable timeframe based on previous heated debates about XRL.

    - Draft Draft


    - Draft Order

    I strongly agree with the proposed change - primarily as it provides more compensation for those who draw poorly in round 1. As we have seen this year the advantage of having a solid kicker who also scores XRL points in their position is a big advantage.

    - Playing Less Than 13 Players

    Strongly disagree with this - this just seems to punish people who get players injured even further. Ie: you lose a few gun players, don't get the points that they would otherwise have contributed (a big punishment), and then are faced with the option of having -1 scores while they are out or dropping them only for some other team to waiver them at a later date and benefit from your misfortune. Injuries already play a huge factor in the luck of XRL without further punishing the team who has lost the player. Similarly in bye rounds if you are not able to field a full side you are already at a disadvantage without losing further points for blank spots on the team. This also further plays into the luck of the XRL Draw which plays a significant role in determining the season outcome - again down to luck and not able to be influenced by the coach.


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    Wolvershank
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    Re: End of Season Review

    Post by Wolvershank on Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:39 pm

    In response to playing with less than 13, yes injuries make life hard, but we have 7 players in reserve each to cover for those injuries. I think if you've got half a team on your bench and you get a bad run of injuries in a weekend (lets say 4), if you can't cover for them it's because you've been stashing players who aren't playing for whatever reason. Injuries are a luck factor (though not completely), but there needs to be some luck involved in XRL otherwise the result would be predetermined when the draft order was set. And as this is a luck situation that you can manage and plan for in the players and positions you pick, and your activity in waivering and trading, it lends itself to a better manager navigating their problems better.

    And as for bye rounds, yes you will be at a disadvantage as up to half the teams might not play, but everyone is in that same situation. and by punishing non-players it creates the tactical choice of readying yourself for a bye round, or writing it off in order not to shake up your squad too much (and at the end of the day, if you only manage 5 starting players you are only looking at an 8 point handicap, and that's assuming your opponent manages to pick a full 13).

    Out of interest I tallied up our waiver counts this year. After 21 rounds we averaged 9.6 waivers per team (out of a possible 21) The maximum was 18 (bit of an outlier, the second most was 13) and the fewest was 4, so even the most active teams can turnover their squad much more if needed.

    But to enable people to make changes as needed, maybe we could look at unlimited scooping after the Wednesday waivers. There is no reason that this couldn't be implemented as it would still be a first come first serve situation, while teams would still have the option to save up their pick to give themself the best chance at players during the waivers.

    Sheedy

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    Re: End of Season Review

    Post by Sheedy on Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:44 pm

    - Scoring and Stat Provider

    Agree with Rick here. Can go with NRL.com but remove 1 on 1 tackles & adjust any thresholds accordingly to make it more automated. I'd have no issue with removing penalties, too - players deliberately concede a penalty when close to their line sometimes to benefit their team at that stage of the match, sucks if that's the third penalty to your player. If it's a bad enough offense you're punished by the sin-bin anyway, which hopefully the NRL start using more of.

    - Draft Day Changes

    Again, agree with Rick - I'd rather not be debating something just before the draft. Email/polls can allow more consideration and mean that you're not waiting for someone to come back form the bar and ask 'what'd I miss?' before arguing a point over again.

    - Draft Draft

    Good idea, just do another version of the grand final party. Or if you want to extend the hype - draft draw at grand final party?

    - Draft Order

    Happy with this suggestion. My idea previous was repeat round 2 in round 3 anyway and draw in lots of 3 rounds, but pretty much the same thing.

    - Playing Less Than 13 Players

    Don't like this one at all.

    Point 1- If you choose to carry an injured player until they're back, stockpile additional backs to then trade for a better playmaker, or not name a player as he's a good chance of conceding that week, that's your choice as a coach, all could be tactical coaching decisions. Then points can be tough enough to score in the bye rounds, depending on the draw - this season we either had 3-5 players or nearly a full team in those rounds, which 8 points in those games can be a big swing.

    Point 2 -Aside from tactical coaching, not everyone always has the same time available to stay on top of XRL. Some weeks I name a line up & that's it, don't look at players coming in & out of NRL sides. Some weeks I have time so can plan scoops & waivers better. I'm still committed to XRL, but sometimes it's not easy - I wouldn't say it's fair to punish a coach for not updating their squad, that's their choice.

    More active coaches can waiver/scoop/trade to their heart is content to stay ahead of the game, no need to punish anyone who has a blank position whether tactical or not.

    - Other suggestions

    1. Put a restriction on the power plays - say that you can't captain two players in the same position. Might encourage a more even spread of talent in a team's roster - not passionate about it though, just an idea.

    2. In terms of the draw - at the moment we go rounds 1-13 then start again. This means that for some match-ups the only time you play a team is in bye affected rounds. I know this can be a pain in terms of the draw, but is this something we can look at? Happy to help come up with a strategy if people agree rather than just leave it to Shank to sort out.
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    Wolvershank
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    Re: End of Season Review

    Post by Wolvershank on Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:39 am

    Sheedy wrote:- Scoring and Stat Provider

    Point 2 -Aside from tactical coaching, not everyone always has the same time available to stay on top of XRL. Some weeks I name a line up & that's it, don't look at players coming in & out of NRL sides. Some weeks I have time so can plan scoops & waivers better. I'm still committed to XRL, but sometimes it's not easy - I wouldn't say it's fair to punish a coach for not updating their squad, that's their choice.

    More active coaches can waiver/scoop/trade to their heart is content to stay ahead of the game, no need to punish anyone who has a blank position whether tactical or not.

    If people have a problem with the idea from a standpoint of it will make the game worse (or at least won't make it better) then that's fine, I can accept that. I don't think that "I don't have the time to deal with that change" is a valid criticism. You've got two coaches Benny, I'm sure along with naming lineups one of you can also put in a waiver.


    Sheedy wrote:
    2. In terms of the draw - at the moment we go rounds 1-13 then start again. This means that for some match-ups the only time you play a team is in bye affected rounds. I know this can be a pain in terms of the draw, but is this something we can look at? Happy to help come up with a strategy if people agree rather than just leave it to Shank to sort out.

    I liked your idea on this Ben, my problem was that another criticism about the draw that was recently fixed was about strings of home and away games, and making sure every team had at least 1 home game during the state of origin rounds. I just don't have the ability to solve both problems. That's not to say it can't be fixed, so if someone can show me a draw that overcomes both of those situations i'll happily implement it.

    Sheedy

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    Re: End of Season Review

    Post by Sheedy on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:02 pm

    Anyone can put in a waiver, its the time to do it properly. My comment wasn't that I don't have time to deal with that change, it was that punishing a coach who is more comfortable closer to a 'set & forget' sort of strategy with minor changes where possible isn't fair. I put time into XRL where I can, no need to dock points when someone doesn't have time to research the best scoop that week. I gave 2 reasons - one was tactically a coach may choose a method that results in blanks in the line up. Secondly is that punishing someone who isnt active isn't fair.


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